Dacron windon splice how short...

[Headhunter]

Guys,

I've been making them like Dave Brackman says for 8-10 years (since I found Jerry Brown anyway). Made them all lenghts, single and double and never had a failure. Serve the end with 50-80 lb spectra, use a nail knot and pull it as tight as you can, just short of breaking. Seal it with a drop of thin CA and it's good to go. To get the nail knot this tight I wrap the two tag ends onto a pair of 5/8" Craftsman combination wrenches and pull and jerk like Hell until I break the first knot (for calibration)... then I do it again, just short of breaking. 5 wrap nail knot serve will do the trick and if you saw how short that knot is you'd say I'm full of @#$@. Make all of mine and many for friends and taught several people how I do it. Never had one fail or even slip... mater of fact tie the nail knot right and use thin CA and it's damned difficult to intentionally make it slip. ...BUT... ALWAYS... keep an eye on all knots and splices throughout the day.

BTW I use the same techniques to make top shots. Top shot is spliced into hollow spectra, nail knotted and glued. Makes loop to loop. I use JB HCS Line One for all my backing.

and NO!... I have never had a failure or an injury to me or crew, BIG FAT PERIOD!

Nail knot is simple, look it up, Lefty Kreh has it in most of his books, Boy Scout manual used to have it and call it a serve to keep rope from freying on the tag ends.

Headhunter

PS
I learned much of this from Jerry Brown, Chuck Richardson and long hours of tryin' stuff abd breaking it to see if it really works and then using and observing it in actual use.

[Mark Daugherty]

I use to make my own...JB hollow core, JB glue and 50# spectra serves, etc, etc. 24" use to be the norm, but now guys go 18", even 12", but 8.5" is definitely pushing it. I personally wouldn't go less than 18. Risk/Reward is not there, too much to risk for little reward. Basil has been doing custom windons for me for the last few years.

[UKChris]

Headhunter,

I've tried the spectra nail knot but I didn't have the courage not to wrap over it with waxed floss as well!

Belt and braces - keep your trousers up...
Chris

[RavellingTangler]

quote, Rav Tan :-" Well, I did hear someone say they heard someone else say (in Madeira) that a splice failed on a fish because the whipping had been made too tight !

I can only guess (if it wasn't incorrect rumour) that it was so tight it strangled or "pinched" the mono down to a lower diameter and breaking strain ! "

Originally Posted by Headhunter

Guys,

I've been making them like Dave Brackman says for 8-10 years (since I found Jerry Brown anyway). Made them all lenghts, single and double and never had a failure. Serve the end with 50-80 lb spectra, use a nail knot and pull it as tight as you can, just short of breaking. Seal it with a drop of thin CA and it's good to go. To get the nail knot this tight I wrap the two tag ends onto a pair of 5/8" Craftsman combination wrenches and pull and jerk like Hell until I break the first knot (for calibration)... then I do it again, just short of breaking. 5 wrap nail knot serve will do the trick and if you saw how short that knot is you'd say I'm full of @#$@. Make all of mine and many for friends and taught several people how I do it. Never had one fail or even slip... mater of fact tie the nail knot right and use thin CA and it's damned difficult to intentionally make it slip. ...BUT... ALWAYS... keep an eye on all knots and splices throughout the day.

BTW I use the same techniques to make top shots. Top shot is spliced into hollow spectra, nail knotted and glued. Makes loop to loop. I use JB HCS Line One for all my backing.

and NO!... I have never had a failure or an injury to me or crew, BIG FAT PERIOD!

Nail knot is simple, look it up, Lefty Kreh has it in most of his books, Boy Scout manual used to have it and call it a serve to keep rope from freying on the tag ends.

Headhunter

PS
I learned much of this from Jerry Brown, Chuck Richardson and long hours of tryin' stuff abd breaking it to see if it really works and then using and observing it in actual use.

Now I has assumed that the nail knot (or whip finish or Venezuela finish) was what had caused the weakness mentioned in Madeira, since (other than really pulling hard on each of a series of half hitches) that's the way to get the wrap tighter than just whipping under tension (even if you whip with a bowstring serving tool for extra tension).


I wonder if plankton remembers anyone talking about having a topshot/wind-on break at the point where it was whipped, back in the early '90s ?

I'm sure I didn't imagine it, but can't verify what I heard was true.
If headhunter has never had the mono snap at the entry point (which he'd surely recognise as a failure, rather than line popping somewhere away from the splice) it seems more likely it was not.


I have seen a dacron outrigger loop snap 80lb mono where it slipped a foot or so on a take (we think someone not me, honest ! had left the tube of dacron 'bunched' after adjusting the position, instead of smoothing it out tight). I am pretty sure the heat generated by the loop moving under tension, just before it grabbed properly (having stretched out straight) was enough to reduce the b.s. of the line.

[Basil]

Depending on test, my splices are 2-3 feet. I have made casting leaders with 1-foot inserts which is about the minimum IMO. I have had some spinning anglers ask for even shorter insert but I won't risk a failure. Good thread...

[Keith Poe]

Started making windons in 1993 trial & error as with wire leaders hay wire twist barrel roll.
Made my fair share and never used any tools or saw any instructions other than a few basic ideas from a friend.

I found with dak spec or what ever it was best for me to use my west weigh digital load scale anchored with mono attached and rod in holder.

I could slide the mono in the weave and then after spreading her gently apart easily hold the tip of the mono inside the weave as i slid the weave back up bunched up so I could sand the mono then blow all the debris away then put the clean welding gloves on and load up plenty of presure on the load scale then start pulling on the weave stretching it out over the mono for all i was worth, then bring the presure up even more on the drag reading the scale tighten the weave stretching it even more.

The attachment was only as good as the glue i selected and there is alot of diffrent glue for diffrent connections.

Most guys that had failures were a result of not stressing the weave or not using propper glue being careful to sand correctly not to much or to little as well as glue to little or to much under contact or burning the connection.

Some of the mistakes included gluing more than a 1/4" in length and at mono end in weave as well as where the weave stopped at the mono causing guide presure failure.

Really easy stuff if you choose your material correctly with a little practice but labor intensive.

[Blue_Asparagus]

some great info here guys much appreciated, I have been making my own down under for a few years now, am using 400lb mono to 200lb dacron, the splice is 12" long, at the start of the mono I put a series of nicks this stops any slipage.

caught every thing from Blues to Broadies and have found them awesome, I dont whip the ends either, just slide the dacron dwon an inch or so and lay glue on the mono and slide the dacron back over the top, it works a treat

cheers.