Dacron windon splice how short...

dustin · #1 (**permalink**) 02-01-2010, 06:37 AM

Hey fellas - what's the shortest you would feel confident making your dacron-mono splice for a windon leader? Let's assume you're working with dacron of around 200 lb test, 400 to 500+ lb mono (2.0 to 2.5 mil) and making a double dacron splice (two layers of dacron over the mono).

The reason I ask is yesterday I made up some windons with dacron sections that seemed a bit on the short side. I test all my windons by looping the loop over a fixed object, taking double wraps with a gloved hand and reefing on it. In practice, as wraps would only be taken below the splice, the splice only really needs to withstand an angler pulling on the fish with maximum force through the rod (hand on spool with double on reel), so if it is solid under the pressure of a double wrapped direct leader pull it should be fine. The shortest splice I tested yesterday had only around 8.5 inches of mono covering dacron and I tried my damndest to pull the leader out of the dacron (doubting such a short splice would hold together) but couldn't.

UKChris · #2 (**permalink**) 02-01-2010, 10:32 AM

Dustin,

On the basis that if anything can go wrong, it will, and how! I would be shaking in my socks if I saw an 8" splice on a heavy wind-on. On a direct pull, it wll be fine, but if that splice goes backwards and forwards through the guides, there is a risk it might slip and as you knwo, once they start to let go, it is good-bye fishie. The wrapping etc helps, but it ain't perfect.

I would like to see a metre (approx) of double-thickness dacron so that if there is any movement anywhere in the splice, there is still plenty of splice to hold tight until everything settles down again.

And if the wind-on slides through the mate's glove, there is a high risk the splice can be made to collapse unless the wrapping at the end of the dacron is very well done.

My motto - good enough... isn't

Cheers,
Chris

Chip · #3 (**permalink**) 02-02-2010, 02:32 PM

Hi Dustin,

The wind ons I made for the reef are double sleeve 200 or 250 dac on 2.45 Marlin Hard leader. The dacron covers around 14 to max 16 inches of the leader. I smoke up the mono to be inserted in the dacron with some light sandpaper first. I never had one budge at all and I liked them short so you didn't have to wait to grab the leader, less bulky on the reel etc... I never tried going as short as you but if it passed your yank test that's great and it should be fine.

A cool thing I saw last time I was down on the GBR (a few years back now) was guys were using this stuff that I believe was made from spectra fibre, woven like dacron and was called dainema. The boys using that stuff were happy to only stick 10 inches or so of mono in that and it was bullet proof. When a windon got damaged we'd pick out the serving and reuse the dainema loop/sleeve over and over again. Really cool stuff, it came with an inner core of smaller weave that we'ld take out and use for rigger loops that were also indestuctable, which was was good cause 200lb dacron loops don't last at all pulling big baits around in tight clips. I never could find that stuff anywhere. I believe the outside layer was rated at 600lb and inside at 400.

Commercial guys around here are using alot of hollow spectra now that's 500lb on there big 130 electric reels. That would probably work pretty well for splicing too.

Aloha,
Chip

Mikey Mike · #4 (**permalink**) 02-02-2010, 07:11 PM

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Mikey Mike · #5 (**permalink**) 02-02-2010, 07:15 PM

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bmoody · #6 (**permalink**) 02-02-2010, 07:24 PM

Disclaimer: I've never done any splicing

A bunch of the guys on some of the south Florida forums are talking a lot about straight splicing hollow core spectra (Jerry Brown and Momoi) to mono top shots and are making wind-on leaders with the same material. I don't recall in my reading that they were dealing with more than 16-24 inches of overlap max. On purchased wind-on leaders I don't recall more than enough length of the dacron/spectra to make 2-3 wraps on a TLD.

Given your test and the theory that shorter than practiced sleeve should hold I think that until proven wrong you could fish them.

Capt Say · #7 (**permalink**) 02-03-2010, 08:23 AM

Looking thru the wayback machine... did alot of mono "topshots" with power pro hollow for backing playing pit boss... my splice typical was around "6 feet"...

As for windons Dusin , suggest 2 feet.....

Basil makes the ones i use; he'd be a good guy to ask ...

sales@bhptackle.com ..i'll send his direct email to ya ??? (once i find it!...lol )

Catchemup w/o windons

Jay

David Brackmann · #8 (**permalink**) 02-03-2010, 11:27 AM

Dustin:

I have switched from dacron to hollow core spectra for all wind-on's. I use a lot of 200 lb. and 500 lb. spectra from Jerry Brown for this. Regardless I like to use a minimum of 18" with max 24".

Dave

Mikey Mike · #9 (**permalink**) 02-03-2010, 09:38 PM

The shortest splice I tested yesterday had only around 8.5 inches of mono covering dacron and I tried my damndest to pull the leader out of the dacron (doubting such a short splice would hold together) but couldn't. "

RavellingTangler · #10 (**permalink**) 02-05-2010, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UKChris

Dustin,

On the basis that if anything can go wrong, it will, and how! I would be shaking in my socks if I saw an 8" splice on a heavy wind-on. On a direct pull, it wll be fine, but if that splice goes backwards and forwards through the guides, there is a risk it might slip and as you knwo, once they start to let go, it is good-bye fishie. The wrapping etc helps, but it ain't perfect.

I would like to see a metre (approx) of double-thickness dacron so that if there is any movement anywhere in the splice, there is still plenty of splice to hold tight until everything settles down again.

And if the wind-on slides through the mate's glove, there is a high risk the splice can be made to collapse unless the wrapping at the end of the dacron is very well done.

My motto - good enough... isn't

Cheers,
Chris

I found that if the splice can be "pushed" (by glove, roller or some other 'edge') it is likely to fail, whether it is 4 inches long or 8 feet long.

"So " you think "a really tight whipping where the end of the dacron or spectra is, and maybe a bit of Pliobond or DacTac for an inch or three near that end"

Well, I did hear someone say they heard someone else say (in Madeira) that a splice failed on a fish because the whipping had been made too tight !

I can only guess (if it wasn't incorrect rumour) that it was so tight it strangled or "pinched" the mono down to a lower diameter and breaking strain !

I have a few topshots/wind-on leaders done with Jerry Brown "Line One" by Basil, and he uses several feet of overlap. I am not sure why...whether he thinks longer is more secure or for some other reason.

I have never managed to pull to destruction any firm wind on made with more than 5 inches of dacron or about 2 feet of JB spectra, but have found it is far too easy to push the splice so it will slide off. Even when I think I have done the (short) whipping well and applied enough (external and internal) glue to that short bit .

I have thought of, but never bothered to try, a usual double-walled splice ...finished as usual....but then with the inch or two where the mono comes out of the sleev and the whipping there covered by (yet another) piece of dacron/spectra a couple of inches long which is itself securely whipped along part of its length to try and prevent the top end of the splice getting pushed towards the end of the mono.