rusty hooks

[PacoSaca]

Originally Posted by plankton

And some hungry fish. Most hungry fish I have met never complained about hook colour. Truth be told, there are even some unscrupulous wags out there on the tournament trail who deliberately let their hooks remain rusty and just sharpen the tips. Some of them even seem to win some money.

Rodsky, hook color is one thing but a rusty hook can cause tetanus to the poor fish and don't look so yummy as a shiny hook does ...or at least that's what some fish I've met have told me

[Peter Pakula]

I thought this would get the bar going.

Some guys win lots of tournies, lots of times a couple don't even use Barts, or Legends to do it

Even a second rate brand with painted hooks can give you some pretty good wins.

[David Brackmann]

Some even win tourneys without hooks in their lures all together. Some win using bait only. The ways to win are endless......with or without an old rusty hook.

Want to be my hero...win with a greased, brown rusted hook, covered in yellow paint, with the sharpened tip colored green by a permanent marker plus just a 1/4" piece of red rescue tape to cover the eye AND win without a lure or bait....if that fails just stick a Wide Range over the top just to piss off Peter, Roddy and Bart.

Sorry guys...kiss my ass. LOL.

[Peter Pakula]

Why bag a guy and a theory a guy has come up with that also fits in with what someone else has also experienced and worked on.

Dave how many striped marlin have you caught on the same hook using bait? Correct me if I'm wrong but don't you cut the hooks off and leave them in the fish?
Aren't the hooks you use in bait coated or fresh out of the box which are oiled?

Do you use hooks that have gone rusty.

Striped Marlin live in salt water (that might be news to some reading this) Salt water is highly conductive, Ferrous object pulled through the water create an electronic field, the faster you go the greater the field generated.

It's highly likely that fish living in a highly conductive environment, especially an apex predator would be sensitive to most things in its environment including electrical fields.

To ignore something that may (and indeed it may not) help increase success is not the way I operate. Fine if that's the way you want to.

I'm more than happy with my findings and results for a few minutes effort and $ screwing around with hook coatings.

I also think from results I had in Exmouth last week that if you carry the theory forward the same could apply to Blues and Blacks, as I can't think of any other reason the following happened:

I was guest of the Gamex and AIBT tournaments going on different boats to help increase their results.

On the boat 'My Way' full spread of Bart's with JObu's (coating worn off) and 1 Lumo Sprocket on the Long Rigger rigged with Pakula Stainless Dojo hooks. One fish tagged..... Blue Marlin ........ Lumo Sprocket

On the 57' Bertram 'Paradise' Full Spread of Barts, all carrying worn uncoated Jobu's with zinc anode tape and one Pakula Fallen Angel Smoking Jo long corner with Pakula Stainless Dojo Hooks. One Blue tagged ......... Fallen Angel Smoking Jo

On the 52' West Coaster Mahi Mahi II ....... over the tournament 11 marlin tagged.
Spread a mix of Barts and other lures and 1 Pakula Rat in Hot Frigate colours with Pakula Stainless Dojo hooks 8 out of the 11 assorted Blues, Blacks and Sails. All other lures carried Jobu hooks.

Boat that won was 'C Worthy' using stainless hooks on all lures, 50% of fish on Pakula's 50% on various other brands.

OK so are Pakula lures that much better than other brands used or was it that the hooks used made a significant difference to final results.

[David Brackmann]

Peter:

No bagging happening here..you know me better than that. I am way to anal retentive to ignore anything if it might make me a more successful. I was just having some fun with you all...grease or no grease.

I fish non-rusty SS hooks in lures and use non-rusted coated circle hooks with bait. If the circle hook is rusty at the end of the day or next, it is cut off and thrown away. I don't like rusty terminal tackle, tools ect. on a boat. If it's rusty it gets cleaned up to remove the rust (crimp tools get painted) or it goes in the trash..rust and fiberglass don't go well on a boat. Before circle hooks I used Mustad 7731 and 7691's (non-stainless) and would spray them with epoxy paint as it made them last longer without rusting. Never thought on the idea it would turn off a fish due to producing a greater electrical field because the hook was rusty. In the late 80's I had talked to an old New England commercial giant bluefin fisherman who said he would use a sacrificial anode wrapped all over his hook to produce more bites (SS hooks weren't strong enough and they must not have had plastic dip paint back then). He also used lobster cord and soaked it in the bay for weeks on end to allow some algae growth on it to remove all scent from the line and also to make it look natural in the water (said it looked like all the old lobster rope that washes around). He also ALWAYS used plastic gloves and dipped all his dead mackerel in menhaden oil before baiting his hook.

I am not one to have theory or evidence one way or the other on getting or not getting a bite on a rusty hook because I don't have any experience using them to know if the fish care or not.

After reading your tourney results..I sure will be sticking with my SS hooks though!

Questions -

How much electrical field does a steel hook versus rusting steel hook put out? Is there a difference in the field of various SS hooks based on minerals within the hook?

Is there a electrical output range that is attractive to a fish and in turn makes it bite or not? What does a live slimy mackerel or scad put out compared to a dead one for example?

If I have a pod of striped marlin feeding on a bait ball behind the boat and I throw them three live mackerel without hooks in them and three with small rusty hooks in their noses all with no line attached, will they eat the non-hook carrying baits any differently?

I know salmon guys that swear by the Black Box sold by Scotty down riggers to increase the number of bites off wire down rigger lines.

If there is grounds in this...maybe make and sell a hook made out of a plastic so there is not negative or positive electrical discharge and catch every fish.

Dave

[Peter Pakula]

Questions -

How much electrical field does a steel hook versus rusting steel hook put out?

- My brother Henry is a savaunt and used to work that stuff out in his head and have answers in minutes, based on mass, hook material (mainly carbon content), salinity and speed through the water. Like most younger brothers I just wanted answers, not a bunch of formulae when I can't add up anyway, Henry got the brains, I got expelled.

Is there a difference in the field of various SS hooks based on minerals within the hook?
- Yes, based on ferrous content.

Is there a electrical output range that is attractive to a fish and in turn makes it bite or not?

- Yes there is. Commercail Tuna boats in Australia get their earthing checked by marine electricians. I forget the volts and amps, but answer is YES there is and I get every boat I oewn checked by the guy, $50 well spent.

What does a live slimy mackerel or scad put out compared to a dead one for example?

- It depends on speed through the water over ground. The faster you troll the more is generated.

If I have a pod of striped marlin feeding on a bait ball behind the boat and I throw them three live mackerel without hooks in them and three with small rusty hooks in their noses all with no line attached, will they eat the non-hook carrying baits any differently?

- Yes, here's a bit of footage on Yellowfin: YouTube - fin01
I've done simmialr experiments with Sailfish, Black Marlin, Stripes, Blues, Cobia, Yellowtail, sharks (Hammers and Makos) Wahoo.

As you've noticed Game Fishermen are sceptical, no point telling them this kind of information.

I know salmon guys that swear by the Black Box sold by Scotty down riggers to increase the number of bites off wire down rigger lines.

If there is grounds in this...maybe make and sell a hook made out of a plastic so there is not negative or positive electrical discharge and catch every fish.[/I]

- I made Teflon Coated SL12's for quite a few years and if I was going to fish a big money tourney I'd have every hook, regardless of make or type sporting nice yellow 2 part polyurethane.

The last tourney I fished seriously was the Grand Slam on the Gold Coast in 2002. We got 7 of the total marlin catch of 14....... all on Pakula's, and all on Yellow Powder coated SL12's.

Even during the tournament we didn't have enough yellow hooks to go around, we ran the yellow hooks on various lures through the day, we only fish one out of the three days.
We moved the yellow hooks around the spread, 7 marlin on 7 different lures in all trolling positions.

if you look at the grand slam footage also on my Youtube site you'll hear "On the Yellow hooks again" mentioned several times.

[David Brackmann]

Very interesting Peter.

Dave

[rustler]

no I wont be rushing out to buy grease or colored pens, the fact is that we came to this conclusion through trail and error over the season, in dark lures I can see that it shouldnt make any difference but it did, one can also reason that the silver flash of the hook blends in with the bubble trail, one of my favourites is Capt Barts hot breakfast it got no hits on rusty hooks again as son as we changed we caught fish, I have also run some black owner jobu and never had a hit on the lure in which I ran it, so maybe we modify my thead, Do you get a better strike rate on silver hooks over dark colored ones

[Peter Pakula]

Thanks David,
I'm sure it will go straight over the heads of many.........

[Capt. Bart Miller]

Peter dream on if you must, light leader, yellow hooks, etc. --- I know you well enough that I'm sold that you are sincere about your fishing beliefs albeit they are not truly scientific as you would profess them to be.

Just for sport I'm going to take the other side of the coin, that being primordial instincts, & reactionary prey drive. For me that is as basic a premise as you can chalk up.

I.e. old example I coined, still good for starters, lets say I tie up a cat with 20 lb. flurocarbon leader and troll it through my yard at most any speed. Enter stage left my prey drive bred German Shepherd Military/Police K9. Stage right is another like K9 focusing on second cat rigged with a garden variety green water hose, say tied using a big ole grand ma's knot. Get the picture, one real stealth like, the other not so stealth, rather raw, & bold. Now let the show begin, you guessed it, both cats are whipped to ribbons in record time, reduced to bits & pieces. Rusty hook, or what ever matters not, instinct always wins out.

Now I'm not saying that balanced fishing gear matters not, just not as far fetched as your fable rhetoric would suggest. There was a time when I believed in technique that mattered little to the fish. Today I am more balanced, more realistic, less emotional, as for my spreads I will trust Dave Brackmann to describe the over all affect of my presentation. There is nothing weak or devil may care voodo about them.

In conclusion the cats desribed could be live, or dead, trolled head first, or tail first, or just left still to fend for themselves.

O.K. I hear you K9's aren't marlin, & cats aren't lures, OR ARE THEY??????????????

p.s. Peter all those boats you mentioned trolling full spreads of Bart's & one Pakula lure in Australia, hmmmmmm THINKING! Duh WINNING! (((-: Papa

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